>> Hello everyone and welcome to Amanpour and Company.

Here's what's coming up.

Thousands flee Sudan amid war and humanitarian disaster.

I former you envoy to the region with the international community can do to end this.

And.

President Biden: Our messages this, journalism is not a crime.

Christiane: The fate of U.S. citizens wrongfully detained abroad as President Biden meets the parents of jailed American journalist Evan Gershkovich.

The U.S. special envoy joins me.

Then, America's culture wars.

>> Women have much more to consider in a pregnancy than any man on the planet.

Christiane: The Republican state senator who stopped a near total ban on abortion in South Carolina.

>> Organized groups are gathering folks across the nation with a list of books that they haven't even read to have them removed.

Christiane: Book banning reaches new heights.

We talked to the president of the American Library Association about how LGBTQ, black and indigenous stories are being silenced.

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The family foundation of Leila and Mickey Straus.

Mark J. Blechner, Seton J. Melvin, Bernard and Denise Schwartz, Koo and Patricia Yuen.

committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities.

Mark J. Blechner, Seton J. Melvin, Bernard and Denise Schwartz, Koo and Patricia Yuen.

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Additional support provided by these funders and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you.

Thank you.

Christiane: Welcome to the program.

We begin in Sudan where witnesses report six cease-fires being broken by explosions and gunfire.

Here you can see smoke rising over the capital.

Clashes between the country's army and rival paramilitary group have less -- left shortages of food, water and medicine and now doctors say that corpses littering the streets are creating an environmental catastrophe.

A mad scramble is on the way to evacuate thousands from across the world who are stranded there.

Many making the 800 kilometers journey across the desert to Port Sudan, there they are ferried across the Red Sea to Saudi Arabia.

Earlier today a ship carrying 100 Americans arrived.

More than 500 people have been killed in the conflict, which is entering the third week, including at least two U.S. citizens.

So what can the international community do?

Many are looking to the United States and Saudi Arabia to bring the two warring generals to the negotiating table.

The former EU envoy to the horn of Africa tells me the stakes are extremely high.

Alex, welcome to the program.

>> Good evening to you.

Christiane: The news is terrible and gets worse and worse out of Sudan.

The humanitarian catastrophe, not just in human lives, but also in basic services and deliveries.

When you look at it, what immediately comes your mind?

What do you think is at play?

>> It's a fight for power, but it's also a fight for the control of all the assets of Sue Don between the military and the forces of commits.

But what is also at play here is that a long-standing Civil War, as it were, has reach the capital of Sue Don.

Emblematic Lee, the state risks completely collapsed.

Being an urban conflict, which is what it is, you need to start thinking of scenes like those of a leper potentially hitting a city in the horn of Africa.

It's frightening, I fear that the two sides seem to have crossed a Rubicon, they have decided to fight it out to the end unless somehow someone can intervene quickly.

Christiane: That is really interesting what you say, that they've decided to fight it out to the seven.

The head of the rapid support forces, you just quoted, the RSS head, told an Arabic language TV channel that he does not see a reason to negotiate with the leadership of the Army.

So there basically is no room for diplomacy.

>> Diplomacy not backed by some degree of threat, as it were, I think will be a real problem, and I think here's the issue, these are two leaders who actually, in herein lies a paradox, both of them are desperately key that they don't lose the last vestiges of a reputation internationally.

Both teacher on the edge of being rendered criminal by the ICC.

Mehdi was closely linked to the regime.

I think it's time some people consider that as something to be raised in quite directly.

Christiane: Where is the central government backed militia that created the genocide that is responsible for all those killings, and as you say, was top leader, who himself is being indicted by the ICC.

The question I had to you is really to go back almost to the beginning, how was it even -- here we are saying that there's this massive Civil War on its way to the capital to be played out in blood and guts in Natural Resources and total power, how are these two ever trusted with being the democratic transition?

What went wrong in Sudan and in the international community?

>> Two things.

Let me start anecdotally because I was listening to the Prime Minister of Sue Don, the former prime minister, who had to resign at the end of 2021, but he was asked publicly what lessons he drew, and he made this point that after the incredible scenes of a rising from the population, a peaceful rising, which resulted in the government that he was asked to take the lead, he said he spent all that time trying to demonstrate that Sudan could do something unusual, which was that civilians and military could work together to arrive under Democratic, civilian rule.

In the lesson he has learned is, unfortunately that didn't work, so we need to ask ourselves, or we into much of a hurry to find a solution which we thought was pragmatic, but actually tilted those -- towards those who had the money in the weapons and that the civilians gradually got squeezed out.

That's a lesson we have to learn, which means the international system, which is backing this, needs to go back and think if the protest -- processes, of which I was involved, we overcomplicated it, I think you may have needed to rise to the occasion by bringing together two or three of the most serious states and institutions at the highest level in order to bring that level of political attention to bear, don't forget the last two or three years the world has been otherwise engaged and distracted.

That strategic distraction became an opportunity for real serious mischief, which will have real strategic implications.

This is not just about Sudan, it's about a wider area.

Christiane: You are talking about the last three years in which we had the war in Ukraine, the Covid pandemic and all the other things that have taken up all the oxygen of the international communities.

As you know now, it appears, at least United States, Saudi Arabia, may be Egypt, they are trying to do diplomacy, you say, rightly, that you were involved the last time around.

If you had to look back, you sort of said what might've gone wrong, but we hear for years, the international community has essentially accommodated and appeased these two generals instead of holding them accountable, milestones along the road.

From your experience, what would you say is a mea culpa?

>> My belief, fundamentally is that Sudan is about control of money on the assets of the country, the international community should've organized with the civilians to get total control of the assets of the country since those ceased to be stolen by either a military cartel or someone who has arrived as somewhat of a warlord .

We failed, we were too polite at one level.

Secondly, people wanted a different end for the revolution.

That meant making sure resources were available.

There resources from the international community that could've provided a breathing space to allow politics to occur, it didn't arrive in sufficient quantities and on time, and convinced that if you don't provide that sort of oxygen, politics cap occur properly and the people start rising again.

But I think right now, we are way beyond that.

Today, I would sort of urge anyone to think about how you move if you are very well trained, battalions to protect that airport.

After all, everyone has been arguing that the two parties agree to aircraft landing in the airport and taking people out.

How about making sure that they keep allowing other planes to come in.

Christiane: What do you mean?

Let me just stop you.

Do you mean U.N. troops?

A couple of strong battalions of what?

>> Whomever, the neighbors, Ethiopia, the neighbors are perfectly capable, they've done this in this region frequently.

In small yet we have 20,000 troops from the region operating.

Here one just wants a few battalions to arrive in the airport and carve out some corridors to provide protection for civilians and assistance.

And one other thing, I bake everyone to understand, this is the country through which the Nile flows.

Technically it's called critical infrastructure, there are dams, electricity, this is a city without water and water supply, without electricity, and it is vitally dependent on all of that.

If we don't move decisively, and I believe that the diplomatic level and the security level, people are beginning to contemplate this and just argue they hurry up, they speed up, they scale up those types of plans.

And that may ward -- that may wake up the warring party.

Christiane: That's really quite dramatic that you believe it will take that.

We are certainly really pleased to have your experience and that advice.

Former envoy to the Horn of Africa, they queue for joining us.

>> Thank you very much.

Christiane: In Washington over the weekend, President Biden addressed the annual White House correspondents dinner amid the traditional laughs and jokes, the very serious state of affairs for those wrongfully imprisoned abroad.

Biden met privately with the parents of the Wall Street journalist Evan Gershkovich, who has been arrested and jailed in Russia.

President Biden: Our message is this, journalism is not a crime.

Seven should be released immediately, long with every other American held hostage wrongfully detained abroad.

Christiane: Because it's not just journalist, over the last 10 years there has been a 100 75% increase in Americans being wrongfully detained, that's according to the James Foley foundation, the advocacy group, U.S. special envoy for hostage affairs, Roger Carstens is the man cast with bringing Americans home, he even escorted the WNBA star Brittney Griner back from Russia after nearly a year in jail there and Roger Carstens is draining me now from Washington.

Welcome to the program.

>> Thank you for having me.

Christiane: Can I start by asking you whether there is any update on negotiations to bring back Evan Gershkovich?

I've had his editor in chief on the program in the last week, and you yourself publicly in an interview said that negotiations are just beginning to be made and to be sorted out on that regard, that was a couple of weeks ago.

You have an update?

>> What I can tell you is that the United States is using every possible channel we currently have.

Every time the United States engages with a Russian counterpart, we bring up his case.

You probably know Ambassador Tracy had a chance to see Evan on the 17th of April.

She had a chance to sit in on his court hearing on the 18th of April and sadly, we just found out that her request to see Evan on the 11th of May was denied by the Russians.

But the bottom line as we continue to press the rush -- press the Russians and strategize on how best to progress, a lot of this will play out over time.

In a perfect world we are able to work on getting seven home before a trial starts.

As the Russians indicated, they often will hold someone until the end of a trial process and only then begin negotiations to bring them home.

It is our intent to have a full-court press and try to bring them back as soon as possible.

Christiane: The editor-in-chief said she thought it might take until after a so-called trial, but I understand you are pressing to do that before.

On the other American still held hostage in Russia, this is Paul Whalen, he was not brought home, he was left behind when Brittney Griner was brought home, and his family is now worried that he might be left behind for this other high-profile detainee, which is seven, a journalist, and there's a lot of rightly so publicity around his case, you recently said, again, that there is a significant deal on the table for we Lynn.

Is that deal still on the table and what does it involve?

A swap for someone else, who?

>> The deal is still on the table, we keep reminding the Russians we are expecting an answer whether it's a yes or no, I wouldn't want to get into the details, the bottom line is we talk too much about what we try to do with the Russians, we begin to negotiate in public.

That might decrease our chances of bringing Paul home.

I would never want to do anything that would decrease...

There's a good chance Paul would probably end up seeing this interview, I talked to Paul every week or two wooden comes from Russia -- calls from Russia, I would like to say hi to him if he gets to see this from his Russian prison.

We talked to the family not even just weekly, we talk to them continually throughout the week, we try to reassure them we are still pressing hard.

It's our intent to bring Paul home.

I talked to him often, this is personal to me.

Christiane: Paula, a former Marine was detained in 2018, convicted in 2020 and sentenced to 16 years.

The Russians involved T was -- allege she was involved in an operation and you all have denied that.

I'm interested in what you all are saying because it's very different to how it appears the negotiations or not are being negotiated for with the Iranians.

Some of the longest held American hostages are American Iranians.

I think you know -- who has been in a very well-known and terrifying prison to all Americans, have been there for seven and a half years.

I think you probably listen to the interview that he very bravely called this program to do in order to appeal to you and the president and others to get serious about negotiations with the Iranian government and for visits.

Here's what he said.

>> President Biden, I certainly hear and I sincerely appreciate your administration's repeated declarations of freeing the American hostages in Iran as top priority.

But I remain deeply worried that the White House just doesn't appreciate how dire our situation has become.

It's also very hurtful and upsetting that after 25 months in office you haven't found the time to meet with our families.

Just give them some words of assurance, sir.

We have now collectively languished here for 18 years.

Our lives and families have been utterly devastated, we desperately need you to finally conclude that we've suffered long enough.

Christiane: It's still very painful to listen to that for me, and I'm sure for their families and I'm sure for you as well.

The fact of the matter is there are several things I need to ask you about.

First and foremost, what is the state of negotiations by the U.S. administration for their release, and are they being hampered by the political dynamic that swirls around between the U.S. and Iran?

>> I can't get into the many details about this, this is probably one of our most sensitive outreaches, I could tell you we still continue to work on this negotiation to bring his Americans home, I agree with what he said, it's painful, it is painful to listen to.

I talked to the families quite often, Secretary Blinken has talked to the families and we take his pleas quite seriously but can't get into the details of that.

But in terms of the tensions between us and the United States and whether it affects the negotiations, I would assume there is an aspect in any negotiation, and in my three year since doing this job, we have a chance to sit down with the Venezuelans, the Syrians, etc., even though there might be tensions or a lack of diplomatic relations, we are still easily able to find some sort of common ground and eventually come to a deal.

Iran has been frustrating because it has been taking so long.

There's a saying we have in my office at the other side gets a vote.

No matter how much time, creativity we put into bringing someone home.

At the end of the day they hold the key to the jail cell and it's our job to get them to turn the key.

I share in his frustration and the frustration of family members that I hope everyone out there, to include the listers the family members know we are on a full-court press to get them home as well.

I will share a story in that Secretary Blinken has not only talked all the families but he keeps a card in his left breast pocket and keeps a name with all those involved.

This is serious with the State Department and you can tell from the president's comments at this topic is important as well.

Christiane: I imagine it's important for you all and certainly for you, we have the picture of you escorting Brittney Griner home.

But we are getting a very clear message from the Iranian families that what he asked for in that interview was a meeting of the families with the president.

And I would like to read you something with good knowledge of others in the case have said to me, and I want to put it to you.

This person is telling me clearly President Biden is not prioritizing bringing home the American hostages.

The objective way to judges to observe how he acts when the detained American is a famous WNBA player or globally known journalist at a top American newspaper in Russia.

In these cases he talks about the Americans personally, he makes calls to the families, he meets the families in the White House and its staff is seen making moves in speaking about their efforts.

It's clear to the world that the president is personally committed to bringing them home, but in the case of the Iran hostage families, the president has ignored their desperate pleas for help and support in the families are repeatedly blocked from accessing anyone in the United States government that has the power to reach a deal to bring them home.

I know you said that the Secretary of State has spoken to them, but I also know, because I've asked many in your administration, that this message somehow is not getting to the president even though one of the hostage families delivered a letter to the president herself at the ceremony and told us about it.

What do you think is preventing the president from doing what he does for just about every other detained American, from meeting, as a Comfort call, please Iranian American families?

>> I would say that under President Joe Biden we brought back 27 Americans in 27 months.

Of that number, only two of those families met with the president, so there were 25 Americans brought home in the last two years whose families never met with the president of the United States.

And what that says is the president is committed to getting the job done.

The real measure of success is whether someone comes home, steps on a tarmac on U.S. soil and falls into the loving arms of their family.

That's the metric we are shooting for.

Whether the president speaks to a family are not doesn't stop the machinery of trying to get the dog -- trying to get the job done.

I can tell you the president is committed, Secretary Blinken is, I certainly am.

In terms of what your commenter said, in the 27 Americans we brought back, they come from different financial backgrounds, different races, ethnicities, different parts of the United States, they are all different but share one thing in common, that is they hold a blue passport.

If an American holds a blue passport and are wrongfully detained, the United States of America will work overtime to bring them home.

I can assure you the president is committed and we will find ways to solve all these cases.

That hear me, they are hard and take a while.

Christiane: I asked you about the Iran American politics but what about the X out community who seems to be putting a lot of pressure on the United States, saying we don't want any deals to be made with Iran and just more sanctions, is that a problem for you trying to come up with a deal on these prisoners and hostages?

>> Be taken a lot of different information from various streams, whether it's intelligence reports, diplomatic use, we always take a look at everything to try to get the job done, at the end of the day the President will render a decision based on the courses of action delivered, and that's what we are currently working on.

I guess if I was to be direct, I would say it might be a factor but it will still result in some sort of deal that we will be able to eventually hammer out.

I could refer to cases that we have already brought home from Venezuela where there's also a very strong community in the United States that's very vocal, yet we are always able to find a way to get the job done and we will get the job done in this area as well.

Christiane: I'm sure that will be of conflict to those families.

Thank you very much for joining us.

For decades, American conservatives have tried to end abortion in the United States since the reversal of Roe v. Wade last year, a crackdown on abortion rights as come swift and fast in Republican majority states.

Just last week new bill threatened to ban abortions in Nebraska and South Carolina in nearly all cases, but in both those dates a handful of Republicans block the legislation.

Here's the South Carolina State Senator.

>> There are millions of women, millions of women in this state who feel like they have been personally addressed in this legislation.

Millions of women feel like they have not been heard.

Christiane: With the unpopularity of strict bands and the GOP looking ahead to the 2024 presidential election, are we seeing the party refocus?

We are joined now from South Carolina, State Senator, welcome to the program.

>> Thank you very much, it's a joy to be here.

Christiane: Such an important issue as you yourself said women have to make these decisions and only women are affected more than any man on this particular issue.

So just walk me through what went through your mind and through your politics when you stood on the floor of your legislator and said no to the ban that was being proposed.

>> One of the things I wanted to convey where things that were not passed or not discussed at any previous committee meeting, I was flabbergasted to have seen discussions about pregnancy itself, and I've heard some statements made that were inaccurate by men, and they were legislators.

They need to know, right then and there, before it was too late, exactly what was wet.

At this day and age, if you believe that a woman knows she's pregnant moment she conceives, you are wrong, so I wanted to make sure some of these statements were addressed directly, I want to talk about the biology of what happens, we seem to have the stigma of discussing--discussing such things.

This is biology, if you are comfortable talking about it, perhaps we should not pass bills about it.

Christiane: It's interesting to hear you speak because you are a Republican state senator in a Republican legislator and you are pro-life.

And your position carried the day by one vote in this same in Nebraska where this same issue came up and again, by one vote, the Republican legislator there did not allow a blanket ban on abortion.

And I think you are talking about the six weeks where you say if a woman is expected to know exactly when she's conceived, it's kind of fantasy.

>> I'm sorry.

I was going to say, our Senate passed a really good bill that spoke to the issues presented by the South Carolina Supreme Court.

They ruled out S-1, the fetal heart bill being unconstitutional for the state.

I voted for S1.

We found another bill, we wrote it, all those issues were addressed in that bill, S 474, we passed it, I voted for, we Senate to the house in the house sent us their bill, which is this total abortion bill.

It wasn't acceptable, they knew the votes weren't there, they knew it and we held our own, nobody change their votes, nobody was expected to change their votes.

And if they don't get it by now that South Carolina does not want a total abortion ban, we have proven it in the Senate and we will do it again, at the same time we need restrictions, it's out of control in our state.

Christiane: I hear you, it's very important Republicans are talking like this.

This is by Fox News -- Fox News, which is where a lot of Republicans, hard light conservatives go to get their information.

Recent polls show essentially how far out of step the GOP is with the electorate on this issue and I wonder how much you are concerned by these facts.

According to the Fox poll, abortion should be legal says 56% of respondents, illegal says 43%.

Again, according to the Fox poll, access to the abortion pill should be legal according to 65% and illegal according to 30% just tell me, that is important because you've seen how this issue has cost you all votes in the midterms and probably in the future.

>> Frankly, I do not legislate according to polls or what may happen at the next election, of course on running for reelection , I expect to be reelected, but I have to focus on what's best for South Carolina, what most South Carolinians want, and it's true, I represent a rural district and there are many Republicans who are strongly pro-life, they are antiabortion, I respect them, I hope they feel like they've been heard, but I have even more so, people who do not want a total abortion ban, so I have taken all that into account, the Republican party has a very pro-life stance, it is unfortunate that people decide to divide themselves.

I'm not a part of that, I try not to be, I am doing my senatorial duty as a Christian woman in our state Senate.

Christiane: I would like to play a soundbite by Nikki Haley, your former governor running for the Republican presidential nomination on this particular issue, here we go.

Wax I do believe there is a federal rule on abortion.

Whether we can save more lives nationally depends entirely on doing what no one else has done to date, and that is to find consensus, that's what I will strive to do.

No Republican president will have the ability to ban abortion nationwide.

Christiane: That's a definitive statement.

Do you agree with that and the South Carolina Republican woman said the party needs to find middle ground.

It was sponsored -- the Wisconsin Supreme Court, Kansas and others, they are all making votes that are causing some ruckus.

Can you explain the difference between what you are saying about the states and the bigger picture whereby some senior Republicans call for a federal ban?

>> This is a problem in America, isn't it?

We must keep those powers separated, it's called federalism, and when he tried to have -- Roe v. Wade was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, so we have to uphold that legally.

I think if the decision is made and given to the states to take this up and figure out what each state needs to do for their own citizens, that's how it should be.

The federal government should leave them out of it.

You don't need them telling us what we need to do or not do, I respect Governor Haley very much but I do disagree with her on this issue, the federal government needs to stay out of it, the states are handling it, albeit a little slowly and South Carolina, but as far as consensus is concerned, the Republican consensus is that we do need restrictions.

There's a range between zero weeks in 12 weeks.

The six weeks I think is the perfect time in the time that best suits all parties, the then Republican party, that's why feel so strongly about S 474.

Christiane: The fact show the majority of abortions are within the 12 weeks, I believe the first trimester.

I want to ask you, finally another hard-line Republican position that the majority of Americans are not behind and that his guidance.

Again, on Fox, Fox found background checks for guns have 87% support, requiring mental health checks, 80% support, required 30 day waiting time, 77 -- 77% support.

In ban assault rifles, 61% support.

It is South Carolina stand on what is a clear majority of people end of Republicans on these issues for sensible gun control?

>> First of all, I think part of the problem is the word control we have a lot of people that want to be left alone and in South Carolina, we have very strong gun ownership we need to have responsible gun ownership.

I believe the background checks and to my knowledge there is no loophole.

You have to have a background check to purchase a gun, firearm.

I tend to disagree a little bit with the national outcry as far as going very, very strict on guns.

Down south, where I'm from, a lot of people race, they learn how to use a firearm properly, safely and put it away, we passed the open carry law with training two years ago, and it looks like we will be looking at constitutional carry which doesn't require a permit.

I stand very, very torn about this, my constituents want me to vote yes.

They want me to, it is clear.

Law enforcement does not want it , but we will see when the vote comes out.

I'm try to keep my eyes and ears open and my heart open to that decision.

Christiane: Thank you so much, State Senator in South Carolina.

Now from a sanctuary to a battleground, libraries are at the center of a polarizing debate dividing the U.S. in these culture wars, attempts to censor books have escalated to levels unseen since tracking began decades ago, after elected officials and activist groups ramped up efforts to ban titles as librarians find themselves on the front lines of the battle for international freedom, the president of the Library Association speaks about the year of the book ends.

>> Thank you two the president of the American Library Association, thank you for joining us.

We want to talk about this report that you put out and this is startling because what you say is there have been more looks challenge since your organization began tracking this.

Just so our audience is clear, what is a challenge to a book in a school district or school mean?

>> A challenge is a formal complaint I a parent or patron to have a book removed from the collection to restrict access to it for everyone else in the community.

>> 2500 challenged books and that's nearly double the number of titles people sought to ban just one year ago.

What's behind this?

>> What we are seeing are organized efforts for book removals and challenges for public and school libraries across the country.

These organize groups are gathering folks across the nation with a list of books that they haven't even read to have them removed, asked -- often for sexually explicit content, but what they are targeting is LGBTQ stories and histories as well as people of colors stories and histories.

>> That's a common thread you see between the books being challenged?

>> Absolutely.

On the top 10 list it expanded the top 13 this because that's how dire the situation is we are in, there are so many ties out our top 10 bat -- ban list that we had to expand it.

Every title had the guise of being banned under sexually explicit, but the themes that were in it, the stories and characters featured had primarily LGBTQ backgrounds in black and indigenous histories.

>> Were you surprised at any that showed up on the list?

>> I was surprised.

Many titles were on last year's list, a fair number, but we saw titles appear that haven't been on there in years, like perks of being a wallflower and crank by Ellen Hopkins.

So part of that is that individuals are using previous top 10 lists to determine what books they want to see challenged without understanding the context of it.

That helps us as library workers because we see the trends.

It helps us to determine what organized efforts there are or when individuals are not challenging books in good faith and are not interested in having a conversation about whether it is right or wrong for our community library.

>> This is happening more at school libraries were at public town libraries?

>> It's happening in both, 50-50 between public and school libraries, there are challenges that happen in academic spaces as well as schools in general and not necessarily school libraries, but this is a national event.

I think individuals characterize it as a red state -- blue state.

But what we saw in 2022 was that nearly every state in the United States had one challenge.

The only state that didn't have any recorded challenges was Nevada but we rely on self reporting and verify challenges in the news.

So a lot of challenges go unreported because individuals are afraid to speak out although the American Library Association provides confidentiality and one-on-one assistance to those who need it.

>> What happens after these challenges?

>> We recommend selection policy toolkits that individual libraries can use, but libraries are hyper local institutions, so each one handles it a little differently, however, we have recommended practices such as when you receive a challenge you don't remove a book off the shelf until the committee has had time to view it so that everybody has access to the information and to that book, but what we see also are a number of libraries in jurisdictions who are jumping over those policies and procedures and just removing the books straight out, whether it's because they are part of the organized attacks or they are using it for their own moral agenda.

>> Many of these challenges are wrapped in the language of parental rights and at the core of that conversation or point of view is that, I'm a parent, I should have the authority to tell my child things about race, about sexuality at a time when I know my child might be ready to handle it or absorb it and that it's maybe not the place of the school district to decide for me.

I'm sure you've heard that a hundred times, what your response to that thinking?

>> It's important for us to understand parents have the right to parent their children.

They have the right as a family to decide what they read together, to decide when their children are ready for certain topics, but they don't have the right to make the decision for other people's families.

We know that our children develop so many skills through reading, whether it's empathy, whether it's scientific skills, skills that they need for school or also skills to understand how to deal with the complex issues that they are dealing with in their lives, and our children and families have so me different stages and experiences at different times that we have to make sure families have access to materials when they need them and are not being restricted by others when they disagree or want to dig date when they need those resources.

>> According the Penn America, the most prevalent states where this is happening is Florida, Texas, Missouri, Utah, South Carolina, is there something happening in those states that makes this fight so much more visit for us or even effective?

>> I think we see it mirror what's happening in legislative areas as well, those states often have laws that are trying to be passed that restrict access on the state level, it's not just the local library level or even a citywide level, it is a statewide level they are trying to restrict access to information, but also trying to restrict access to individual rights and liberties.

In Florida we see the Don't Say Gay bill and then we see a ton of LGBTQ books on the list for removal.

Previously it was critical race theory related books, like the 16 19 project that were under attack.

So we are seeing these shallow inches mirror what is happening in our broader national state conversations.

>> Is there an uptick around political years in political cycles.

In President Biden's campaign video for his relaunch he called out this specific topic as well.

>> I think that these challenges are going to continue through the election year.

A lot of politicians, especially right now are using this as a political wedge issue, so I think we have to remain steadfast and ask our individuals to unite against book ends with us because we cannot do this alone as library workers, we have to have the majority of workers who we know are opposed to book Dan's join us and talk to their legislators and not let them use this as part of their political games.

>> Challenging books or trying to ban books has an incredibly long history, probably as far back as when the first book was printed, that said, do you find anything different now in the speed or the force of these challenges in 2023, just given the data and how much more challenges, how many more challenges are in 2022 than 2021?

>> It is so much easier now to organize individuals and spread misinformation through using the Internet and social media groups, so that's really the difference between book banning now in the book banning Reese on the 1980's.

I think some of the themes are very similar, the 80's book banning was a pushback against the 70's women liberation, Roe v. Wade, can civil rights, the gay rights movement, we see that also, but that -- pushback against coming out of the pandemic, George Floyd's murder, increasing gay and trans rights.

Those themes are similar from the 1980's to now but how are individuals who are challenging books are ergot -- are organizing is much different and there is easier access to be able to spread misinformation in that way.

>> There seems to be different attacks on books on the one hand you have people concerned that there might be too much sexuality in books or concepts in conversations about race, but you also have attacks on books and characters that might have been racist then and are certainly deems racist now, but I kind of wonder how you deal with the content or you just say this is an about content at all?

Wax I think the same principle applies.

We do look at content when we are deciding what books to put into our libraries because we want to make sure they represent our community's values, as well as the larger broader society that we are living in, so it's really important for us to also remember when we are looking at books who are considered classics, to kill a Mockingbird also shows up on banned books list, all also does of mice and men, these are things we are taught in high school and part of our curriculum.

We have to remember to take these into the historical context they were written in and find the value, just like when we look at the band book list today and things are bad for being sexually explicit, it's often one or two passages that are within a larger text that help us to understand that a journey of a character or the journey of our history of an individual and so it's important for us to remember again that everyone has the right to decide what they want to read, but they don't have the right to dictate and decide that for other individuals, so we want to make sure our collections are as inclusive as possible and are as broad as possible to provide as many different viewpoints to a situation as is responsible for us to do.

>> Does the ALA take a position towards publishers who are thinking about re-editing what we might think are classic books?

>> We don't have an official stance on that that I would be able to comment on.

>> To find publishers that are trying to re-edit books to make sure they are still available and can still be sold and shared?

>> I have read some instances of that.

A number of rolled alts books were updated and I think those decisions should be made between the publisher and the author or the author's estate depending on where the rights for the book are helps.

But I think that really understanding the context that our books were written in is essential to understanding how our society has changed over the years.

And I think one of the things we get mired in this that books we read as a child, we have to have our children also read, even though they may be outdated, and I don't think that's a viewpoint we need to hold.

Sometimes they are wonderful to share, but sometimes they were right in the moment.

There were so many things I read as a kid in the late 1980's and 1990's that I would not share with children today and as a children's library and I need the choice to not share because they did what they needed to do for me but our children have so many wonderful stories to be able to pick from today, why don't we choose some of the new things out there as well.

>> You point out in your report that it is not just books that are the sole target of a tax orchestra to buy conservative parents and right wing media, both librarians and schoolteachers are in the crosshairs of conservative groups and subject to defamatory name-calling, online harassment, social media tax on Doxxing, which is to publicize their personal information, as well as direct threats to their safety, employment and their very liberty.

>> It's a scary time for library workers.

One of the things we risk when our library workers are not able to do the job is we risk the inability of our libraries to function the way that they should, as spaces for creativity and learning, as spaces for resources for veterans and small business owners and families, libraries are a community space so when our library workers are under attack and cannot do their jobs or being fired, jailed or fined for doing their job, we have to come to their aid.

Our library and semi-very workers are trusted individuals in the community.

We know that because from a survey that the American Library Association did in March 20 22 showed 90% of bipartisan respondents it held their library workers in high regard and also had a lot of faith in high regard for the work we do in our communities.

We know this is a vocal minority of individuals who are doing these organized efforts.

From that same poll, 71% of bipartisan voters that were hold said they did not support challenged books, that they did not support removing books from the public library, so when our library workers go into the community, they have the trust but they are fearful of their lives.

>> Are librarians asking you for support, and if so, what support are you able to offer?

Wax at the American Library Association and through our office for intellectual freedom, as we have always done, we provide one-on-one confidential support for library workers, whether it's working on their policy to make sure that it reflects standard practices that will protect them in their jobs, as well as the materials in their collections, whether it is a legal advice, making sure that they have the tools that they need if they are being sued or facing jail time or legislation or financial support can often come into the needs of our library workers if they experience job loss or hardships, we have the merit fund that individuals can donate to to help them ensure they are able to live their lives while experiencing this.

And then we also provide emotional support.

These are really challenging times, as you said earlier, our library workers are experiencing mental health crises and coming out of the trauma also of a pandemic where many library workers were on the front lines every single day and did not have the opportunity to work from the safety of home.

So we are first responders and putting their lives on the line.

All of that combined the American Library Association is serious about making sure our library workers have the tools they need either from us or their local administrations and jurisdictions.

>> Besides the challenges, there have traditionally been budget constraints for libraries around the country.

And I'm wondering whether some of these attacks that might be political in nature wind their way up and say, I guess we will just make these libraries available not so much on Saturdays and Sundays, but maybe three days a week instead of five.

>> We are frequently on the chopping block because I think the value of libraries as being intrinsic to a successful community is often underappreciated and so what we see now with book challenges, in Llano, Texas, for instance, a judge ordered that books removed from the collection be put back onto the shelf, so city officials held an emergency meeting to try to defund the library, to close its doors.

They would rather have no library then have a library that has books that represent everyone in the community.

And so, the community came out, they protested, they showed up to that meeting and the board decided to not close the library.

And so when we are able to articulate the value of our libraries not just during put challenges, but every day when we demonstrate the impact that the life-changing transformative impacts that we make on individuals, it's really essential for those funding conversations.

When politicians and city officials have to make really difficult decisions.

>> The president of the American Library Association, thank you for joining us.

>> Thank you for having me.

Christiane: Finally tonight, the one and only Willie Nelson through a party, really, a birthday party for the ages.

It was a star-studded two day concert at the Hollywood bowl in celebration of the legendary country music singers 90th birthday.

Neil Young, Miranda Lambert, Sheryl Crow, and Tom Jones were just some of the artist joining Willie Nelson, singing his songs in tribute.

When Snoop Dogg took the stage, the pair saying roll me up and smoke me when I die.

>> Roaming up in smoke me when I die.

Christiane: That's a little sneak at the stage for Willie Nelson age is just a member as he sets off on the road again for another U.S. tour.

That's it for our program tonight, if you want to find out what's coming up on the show every night, sign up for our newsletter at PBS.org.

Thanks for watching "Amanpour and Company," and join us again tomorrow night.